Watchmen Club Issue 2 - Absent Friends - Recap & discussion

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Dave Anderson : I don't understand the hate for Laurie. There's always mother-daughter tension, so I don't see the reason to vilify just one side. Beyond that though, I can understand Laurie's frustration with what she views as her mother's old-fashioned willingness to stay quiet and play the part of the door mat. From Laurie's perspective, her mother never complained about being used and abused by men who took advantage of her sexuality -- a husband / manager who made money off putting her in a ridiculously revealing completely impractical "super-hero" costume, and a "hero" who her mother allows the world to continue to think of as a "hero" because she won't speak out about him violently and brutally beating her and attempting to rape her. And then, worst of all, Laurie feels her mother pimped her out as the new hot young thing to keep the family business going. Laurie also resents that she's stuck in her mother's pin-up girl shadow no matter what she does. Unlike her mother, she actually developed fighting skills and actually fought crime. Doesn't matter, she's Sally Jupiter's daughter, so she's just the pretty girl, too. And then, despite all her efforts to be different then her mother, she ends up just being the girl whose sexuality keeps Dr. Manhattan tethered to reality. I'm sure Laurie beats herself up about finding herself in the same box her mother ended up in, but I can tell she also has resentment towards her mother for putting them both on the same path. On a totally different note, the faces-clocks thing pops up in a major way with the Comedian this issue. Blake's face is sliced into a permanent doomsday clock foreshadowing the blood-spattered button. Now, his face can't be a mask that hides that reality behind a joke any more and he has to hide his face behind an actual mask.

Matt Man : We need more comic book book clubs in the world. Excellent work!

Roberto Teniente : I'm really hyped for this bookclub Clair. Love Watchmen. Looking forward for all the next sessions. Hi from Mexico.😍

Xenodroid : Great video, you've given me a lot to think about this with this book, lot's of things you discussed I didn't pick up on my first read. The only thing I would suggest is a bit of a cooler set up for these streams, I loved how cool you guys made the Dune Club set with the chair and glowing orbs, it really helped set the mood for the topic of discussion and felt like it added some production value to the book club. Maybe you could add like a Doomsday Clock that changes hours depending on the chapter you're reviewing or something. Anyways, just some friendly advice, and of course if you don't have the money don't feel obligated to do anything unnecessary. Thanks if you read this.

edward2962 : Laurie was written to a bitter person. She was kind of forced into a lifestyle that her mother chose for her. And when the Keene Act was passed she ends up as you a "kept woman" for a being that was slowly losing his humanity. At the point where we meet her in the story, she's been lonely and regretful for years, but obviously doesn't know what to do about her life ( until Dan comes around).

Connor Swanson : Ditto on the faces going out of style! I’ve always wondered why people look so different now than in the ‘50s and ‘60s. It could be fashion, but i think there’s more to it. Also is it just me or does everyone our generation look really young? I know a 30 year old who looks younger than me. It’s like impossible to guess age lol

Ryan Jurgens : I'm really glad I'm re-reading this. Things like Rorschach's non-crazy word balloon and lettering during that first meeting of the Crimebusters... I feel dumb saying it, but I'd swear it's the first time I noticed that. And part of me is super-happy not to remember crap like that from the first few times I'd read Watchmen, just so I can be surprised by it now, you know?

cboehm24 : Another comment on the Pagliacci joke, while this has very little (if nothing) to do with the opera. Once of the ideas of the joke is that it is the responsibility of the clown to make people laugh. The clown is the professional who holds that responsibility on his shoulders. But that ignores the needs and humanity of the clown himself. We rely upon the clown to make us laugh, but his sadness is not our concern. Who makes the clown laugh? Similarly, the entire point of the book, the very titular point, is "who watches the watchmen?" Who protect us from our protectors? Similarly, who saves our saviors? Unlike the simple superheroes of yesterday, these heroes are complex humans who sometimes need saving, and sometimes need to be watched. Qui rem ferro rusticus risu?

Joshua James : Everybody go out and tell somebody they're "crazier than a snakes armpit!"

mindthegapmindthegap : One of the more disturbing aspects about Watchmens legacy in recent years is how idealized The Comedian and Rorschach have become to readers. It could not be more clear Alan Moore had one point of view of the characters and the fans have another.

RenDi Supertramp : I don’t think was being lenient with Moloch. It’s just that Rorschach’s moral compass isn’t guided by law, but by what he deems as dangerous . I think he deems the company dispensing the fake pills as dangerous but the act of taking them is only dangerous to himself. He only threatened at first for leverage. IMO.

Phil Robichaud : Hey there! Great videos so far - true confession i didn't get a Watchmen Club pack because i'm broke/cheap - but i love your content and will probably sign up for you Patreon :) I've never read this graphic novel (i know right?!) but am loving it so far - Rorschach is by far the most intriguing character.

Paul Peart-Smith : I don't agree with your reading of Laurie at all. She's spoilt yes, but she grows throughout the story.

Wolfgod : Laurie is supposed to be unlikable, as are most of the characters.

J. C. : You hate Laurie because you're supposed to. Alan Moore is a massive misogynist, or at least he was at the time of writing Watchmen, and The Killing Joke, and V for Vendetta.

Nathan Czochara : Hey curious if you think the Laurie/Sally kinda parallels the SJW and metoo movement that's happening now? I'm not condoning sexual harassment or anything but the splitting of hairs and microscoping of this degradegation of women like you said is kinda putting people in the victim box. Just curious on your thoughts. This is why I love comics, I feel like it opens up a larger conversation better than any other medium.

SPECS : Now they're some sad things known to man But ain't too much sadder than: The tears of a clown when there's no one around, uh Just like Pagliacci did I try to keep my surface hid Smiling in the crowd I try But in my lonely room I cry The tears of a clown When there's no one around, oh yeah, baby Now if there's a smile on my face Don't let my glad expression Give you the wrong impression Don't let this smile I wear Make you think that I don't care 'Cause really I'm sad, 🙏💚

Jason Jerome : Will you ever take on the fourth kind, the owls, moloch and baphomet? Or are you one? Illumi not us? Or may son maybe? Or...? Chaos queen Quentin Quire omega level?

javier lara : mean like this love goddes thing seems like its candy coating people diminishing their self value and not fully living to their potential. I think we just settle into archetypes because were afraid of not having an identity in a world fill of greed,exploitation,murder etc. I think both silk specters are wrong in their world views but trying to compensate for a more deeper underlying problem. I think genuine love is the only solution for something like this love for ourselves and each other.

2nd3rd1st : Just hit me how much CBG admires the Comedian, even though he murdered a woman and his own unborn baby. Usually she goes off on misogynist people or characters. I thought she's such a feminist. What exempts him from criticism?

lucjay9 : You wanna see some crazy meta? Checkout the youtube vid: The Metaphysics of Pepe with Jonathan Pageau

QUWYKXZ : Lol, I think we need a counter on this vid for how many times you said the word "meta" :D

André Castilho : #lovegoddess19

Poison Control : saramouch do you do the fandango?

redxsage : There are a *LOT* of layers within *_The WATCHMEN_* series. They were purposely built, and reveal themselves in time. It does become necessary to go back and read sections again, especially when the same scenes are retold from another point of view. Then, just when it becomes pretty clear where things are going, the whole thing turns, twists, shifts, and accelerates toward an end that was there all along, but hidden in plain sight behind the details known to only one, well, two characters. Then it hops the rails a couple more times to ensure passage on the crazy train. There is one thing in particular that happens in the background that I wonder if you'll eventually mention. You came close to it, but seem to have decided to leave it out for now.

Justin Carroz : Great episode, enjoy the content as always. Interesting commentary about the Silk Specters’ relationship. Question for CBG19, do u feel objectified by ur fans or empowered by us?

Sean MacIsaac : Imagine “The Watchmen” directed by David Cronenburgh in 1992. Reshot and edited... In this movie, Rorschach is basically an alien, who eats through his hands and this is never addressed (properly). And in the sequel, Rorschach is human directed by Michael Keaton—the irony, shot like a music video , and it’s god damn terrible. It only cost a complete win by Attila which leads to Guns and Roses (headed by Anthony Kiedis, who performs a live dub of their hit song with a dude with black arms and legs designed to look like a guitar torso) — which is, no joke, the highest possible concentration of quality of television. And the red hot (guns and roses) being the biggest rock band in history, bigger and darker than the beetles.1997 being the end of the world. One more thing, Pay Per View is the only way to watch television—and it’s amazing.

Josh Brown : I am loving this bookclub! I thoroughly enjoy the breakdown, history and art appreciation. I gotta say, Rorschach was at the funeral during the day, but couldn't reveal his true self because he is on the run from the law at this point. He probably was there to do surveillance of the funeral, tally who was there, survey if any 'super killers' were watching etc.. but then comes back at night to truly pay his respects. --- buuut I'm sure you don't want to give anything away! Love the bookclub, movie reviews and all the other videos! Keep up the fantastic work! Great production work tbone!

Tuckerzm : Hey dude, I really want to do this with you, because this is just one of the best books ever, but I am taking 6 classes this semester, and I am working full time. So just know that I will be watching this in the background because you have a literary understanding that I think is really missing from a lot of pop culture, but I am not reading it with you.

Adam Fibble : Good review of the Watchmen . This is clearly were your passion lies. Your Doctor Manhattan avatar reminds me of the character Venus Bluegenes from the 2000ad story Rogue Trooper. 2000ad also featured several stories by Alan Moore (its what got me into this stuff back in the early 80’s) you see everything is connected.

Matthew W : Synchronicity seems to be a big part of Watchman and Alan Moore seems to link it to space-time. The argument that there exists a place outside time through which Dr. Manhattan travels, and because of this there is an argument that free will doesn't exist. The issue arises as to whether Dr. Manhattan has total foreknowledge into events as he originally believes and so there is an element of probability of free will involved. But Synchronicity still seems to play a role either by just being a recognition of the beauty or balance of events, or by some higher connectedness in the universe. I never really understood if there was a conclusion on what it meant. I think this book was before Alan Moore became engrossed in sigil magic, but I think sigil magic is a continuation of his ideas of snychronicity of events and how they correlate to the universe.

Kaeble : Wha wha whatttt? No beautiful babies?, ... Watchmen is great but I've been reading ahead, oh well

Man of Action : Before you start spoofing too much, make sure you talk about the interrelated story lines of Watchmen, Behind the Hood, and the Tales of the Black Freighter... ;) Time comes, I'll throw in some shade on it... ;)

Ruben Sanchez : Like a literary Russian nesting doll and what you get in the end is, if in quiet desperation and confusion, a good laugh and an even better lesson about the world. Lots of love CBG19, keep it up :]

Jason Jerome : And if I may say, I always liked Allison Blair...darlin dani dazzler. Use the funding and Phoenix force to surmount ....

* * : PLOT HOLE: Comedian says they can do nothing while a god is in the room. Hooded Justice does it for the same reason Batman dresses in women's tights.

Rafael Fuentes : Just finished watchmen, dune series, and midway through the dark tower series. Would love a reading list video, or any recommendations from team CBG19.

Adam Guarnella : Um wifu he caused cancer though didn't he? Lol

Matthew Mohri : I didn't notice the costumes of robot, space brain, your cat, etc. in the first review but I did a few minutes ago and laughed my ass off. LOL.

Dr. Manhattan : I always thought Veidt would be prounounced _Veight_ like _light_ instead of how Cbg says _Veet..._ I dunno what do ya think?

kehimeify : Amazing show, your passion for the comics is so refreshing BTW in 42 the Comedian enter war against Japan ( not Korea)Which is interesting : Korean war does not exist in the Watchmen Univers

Domenico Cutrupi : "Nothing induces something and in turn something induces nothing"

Randy Guttery : Socrates concluded that "it seems that I am wiser than he is to this small extent, that I do not think I know what I do not know".

Philip kelton : well the the thing with laurie is.. woman goes to doctor. Says she's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says she feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says, "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." woman bursts into tears. Says, "But doctor...I am Pagliacci.”

CHRISTOPHER JOHNSON : i feeling im getting to know you more , you are killing it ,you are really into it nice , i would to talk to u

Shawn Douglas : I think the second issue is my favorite single issue of the series. The way Moore/Gibbons craft the narrative and how no panel is wasted as we explore the history of these characters. It's perfection.

Todd Hollis : Great Video CBG19, love the Watchman and I love hearing your take on it. Keep up the amazing work (both of you!)

Ernie Burns : I am increasingly impressed by Comic Girl 19's philosophical appreciation of the superverse. Light and peace.


Les Whittaker : Damn, I have to go back and read Watchmen again.